Receiver room 1942 SA

[IRON WORKER]

Dont remember if I showed this but can you imagine.

[Bubba1]

Nice. This makes a great point. They weren't assembled in order......

[jak]

I wonder which one of those receivers is mine.

[Garanditis]

Looks like some of your collections, no?

[Bubba1]

I wish it was.

[Bodyman]

Pic made me think about the Japs at about the same time. Some of you guys already know all this stuff but maybe some of the newer guys haven't touched on much of it yet, but many of you are used to me being a big picture kind of guy.

It was right about this time, somewhere in 1942, that the Japanese were first examining captured Garands. The very first ones may have been damaged and not functioning (may have even been gastraps from the Philippines), and initially they could not imagine that the oprod was supposed to be bent like that! Apparently it took a good amount of time to change this misconception, and after determining that it was actually was supposed to do that, they started trying to make their own copy. R&D was probably pretty low on the priority list but it kept moving enough to finally come up with their own version near the end of the war. The receiver was a very complex part and by the time they had their own copy designed, they did not have the ability to make a receiver in one piece like we are accustomed and definitely not in any kind of quantity as in the above pics. Instead, (what we have come to call) the 'Japanese Type 5' receiver is actually made from three separate parts that are riveted together! At wars end, we captured roughly 100 completed examples. How many were actually saved seems to be in the few dozen range and, as with virtually all Japanese rifles as far as I know, they are only found here in the United States having all been sent home as trophies. I have seen them in books, I have seen them up close in museums, I have handled them with gloves on, and those in private hands I have watched sell for far more money than I can muster - it is the one example that I truly pine away for and know I will never find walking in at a gun show for a reasonable price - for this one I am going to have to win a reasonable sized lottery pot (thpough as I have been rather painfully made aware again recently, it really is all still out there, ... I am a realist however - I am not holding my breath).

Here are a few pics of the one at the Marine Corps Museum at Quantico;





I think had the top brass in Japan at the same moment in 1942 been shown that pic of literally thousands of receivers almost spilling over onto the floor, a part they couldn't make on a gun they could barely even imagine, Yamamoto would have told them all "I told you so, ...". This was the sleeping lion that they laughed at dismissively because they thought our manufacturing might was wasted on razor blades. The very same sentiment that Iacocca tried to rally people around in the 80's as we sent our own manufacturing abroad - saying we were sending away nothing less than the future wealth, prestige and power of the entire country - and for his efforts was dismissed as a dottering old fool, ...

But again, I digress, ... even though he wasn't wrong.

China agrees, ...

AMHO Best all, ...

[RDS]

Back in the 1990s SARCO had two Jap type 5 rifles. I had the pleasure of handling both with out the benefit of gloves. Both were very crude by M1 Garand standards. One was complete and came from a large collection in northern NJ. The other was missing the butt stock and trigger group. That one I believe came from Interarms and was part of Sam Cummings collection. After Mr. Cummings pasted on his daughter sold his collection and the contents of the business. If memory serves me correctly the asking price for the complete one was 50K.

[CCyooper]

There was a nice one at the SOS last year. It was a good looking rifle. Unfortunately most of the pictures I took with my phone were too dark, but I wasn't worried as another fellow took some pictures with his camera. He said he was going to send them to me, but as of yet has not. I expect he is going to use them in a book and does not want them released. Only time will tell. Several years ago I believe I had a chance to buy one, at least it was described to me as being one by a guy who knew very little about firearms. He was a coworker and one day chatting over lunch he found out I was interested in military firearms. He described the firearm and said his father had brought it home from Japan after WWII. He thought it was a Garand but they never shot it because he believed it required Japanese ammunition. He said it hung in the living room above the entrance leading into the kitchen. He hadn't been home in a couple of years but was headed home in couple of months because his mother was declining in health. When he returned I inquired about the rifle and he said his brother had sold it about 4 months before to cover medical expenses. I didn't ask and he wasn't exactly sure but he hinted that it probably sold for about $200-300. That was 20 years ago but I still think it was a type 5. I have another friend whose dad was a captured Dutch soldier during WWII. When he was released in Japan after the war he brought one home as a souvenir and eventually brought it to the US when he immigrated to the Norfolk area a couple years after the war. It was sold in the Norfolk area in the 60's according to my friend. At least that's what he remembers. While it is only a story, I have no reason to disbelieve my friend as he has nothing to gain from it. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

[RDS]

The American Rifle magazine had several articles on the Japanese Type 5, Sept 1995 being one. Another article I do not have a date for details how Gordon Bess donated a unissued Type 5 to the NRA museum. The article has a photo of the type 5 action. Guns and Ammo Annual 1990 also has a article with photos on pages 38 and 39 on the Type 5.

[Bubba1]

There was one of these at the GCA convention in Chantilly, Virginia last year. I think I have a few pictures of it somewhere, I'll look for them. I cannot remember the man's name that owned it right off but he was very nice and he planned on taking many detailed pictures to share with others since there are only a few out there and the likelihood of someone finding one or even seeing on is slim to none. Y'all are correct, they are very crude but kinda cool that another country would want to copy a M1.

[RDS]

Another American Rifleman article is January 1972 "Military Rifles of Japan" Apparently Japanese attempted to convert captured US M1 Garands to 7.7x58mm Japanese before they started development of the type 5 . Ordnance Technical Intelligence Report 19, March 13, 1946 also has a report on the Type 5. Anyone have a copy of the report?

[CCyooper]

[Jersey Devil]

Here are photos of the Japanese Type 5 (possibly the Type 4) from the 2017 GCA convention.
All photos courtesy of Paul Goedde. Not for reuse with his permission.
Thank you, Sir, for allowing me to post these on my forum.

[Jersey Devil]

Here are a few more......