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GCA Article on Ammo

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    GCA Article on Ammo

    Not sure if anyone has read the article in the latest issue of the journal on commercial ammo vs. the old M1 and M2 ball ammo, but I found it intriguing. Anyone care to share their thoughts, opinions?? I tend to think there is some validity to what the gentleman put forth.

    #2
    Do you have a link?

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      #3
      I don’t have a link, just referencing the print article. Is there a way to access a digital copy online?

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        #4
        Just checking, here's a good wiki article I fact checked that covers the 30.06 development and has great information through the period after WWI through the development of the M1 (174 grain) projectile and the M2. Deeper research is really interesting in terms of the IMR powders used from the M1906, the M1 and the M2.

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-...te-multiref1-3

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          #5
          Definitely interesting history. He did mention some of that in his article. Basically what he stated was that the original M1 cartridge was a high velocity round with a 174 grain bullet. Essentially what he said is that modern loads (150 to 180 grain standard power rounds) are close enough to the original spec M1 and even some M2 loadings like HXP, that there isn’t much to worry about if you stick to those rounds. He also explained the difference between CUP and PSI and that John Garand was measuring pressure in maximum average chamber pressure with a copper crusher device. To quote, “ 48,000 CUP is equivalent to approximately 57,000 PSI. M1 ball has every bit the pressure and velocity of modern 175 hunting ammo. For M2 ball, spec MAP was set at 47,000-50,000 CUP. This is 55,000 to a bit over 60,000 PSI.
          Last edited by SA1941; 03-25-2020, 11:01 AM.

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            #6
            Good information. I'm a bit sensitive to the pressure curve in my Garand and my M1 Carbines even though they are not collectibles. The seedy end of military collectibles has driven the cost of replacement parts to the moon. Even newly manufactured rifles sell for 30% more than they should.

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              #7
              Originally posted by David Milisock View Post
              Good information. I'm a bit sensitive to the pressure curve in my Garand and my M1 Carbines even though they are not collectibles. The seedy end of military collectibles has driven the cost of replacement parts to the moon. Even newly manufactured rifles sell for 30% more than they should.
              I totally understand. I like to be careful with mine too, so that’s why I got an adjustable gas plug if I shoot commercial in mine. Mostly I run M2 through it just cause. But if what has been previously stated is correct, hopefully this will put some minds at ease and perpetuated tales to rest. Oh by the way, show me a picture of an op rod that has been permanently warped or bent due to ammo. I can’t find not one picture of one out there. Kind of like the head spacing myth with Enfields huh?

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                #8
                I suspect the whole issue came out of the "dry is good" fad that was prevalent years ago. The extra drag of a poorly lubricated op rod might have caused someone problems. I grease a Garand pretty thouroughly and generously.
                The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Smokey View Post
                  I suspect the whole issue came out of the "dry is good" fad that was prevalent years ago. The extra drag of a poorly lubricated op rod might have caused someone problems. I grease a Garand pretty thouroughly and generously.
                  Same here. I use Lubriplate or Mobil 1 Synthetic. The only stuff to use.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by SA1941 View Post

                    I totally understand. I like to be careful with mine too, so that’s why I got an adjustable gas plug if I shoot commercial in mine. Mostly I run M2 through it just cause. But if what has been previously stated is correct, hopefully this will put some minds at ease and perpetuated tales to rest. Oh by the way, show me a picture of an op rod that has been permanently warped or bent due to ammo. I can’t find not one picture of one out there. Kind of like the head spacing myth with Enfields huh?
                    I don't believe I've seen a bent op rod and I don't want mine to be the first. I have a pattern 17 Enfield shoots well, I keep apature sights on it, never had any issues with head space. I had a 303 Enfield Mark Il I believe had no head space issue there either.

                    I handload for the Enfield and the Garand, I found it interesting the Garand himself preferred the 174 grain load for it's more positive extraction.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Smokey View Post
                      I suspect the whole issue came out of the "dry is good" fad that was prevalent years ago. The extra drag of a poorly lubricated op rod might have caused someone problems. I grease a Garand pretty thouroughly and generously.
                      I found it interesting that a study several years ago demonstrated the simple oils and standard issue grease worked well for the Garand.

                      As far as the dry fad, I had no carry experiance with the Garand but no way in hell would I over grease the M14 in harse and hostile environments. 150 rounds into a situation and you may have another situation. In my experience same said for the M2, M16 and M4, keep them clean, dry, clear, with a very, very light oil. In foul and foul and cold weather keep them covered your hands off the metal.

                      For storage, collecting and occasional shooting, who cares what people do? I haven't got to clean them.

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                        #12
                        Parkerizing works more to hold a film to preserve the steel underneath. I've found rust on many rifles in the areas inside the stocks, covered by the wood. Changes in temperature cause condensation to form inside the rifle, particularly bringing in a cold rifle (used outside in the winter) to a warmer, more humid heated home. A film of grease stays put and prevents corrosion. I've run hundreds of rounds with a well-greased Garand with no problems at all.
                        The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                        The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Smokey View Post
                          Parkerizing works more to hold a film to preserve the steel underneath. I've found rust on many rifles in the areas inside the stocks, covered by the wood. Changes in temperature cause condensation to form inside the rifle, particularly bringing in a cold rifle (used outside in the winter) to a warmer, more humid heated home. A film of grease stays put and prevents corrosion. I've run hundreds of rounds with a well-greased Garand with no problems at all.
                          Was the hundreds of rounds in range or combat conditions?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Competition, including action rifle, which involved over 100 rounds in each "run" with dust and debris in the air. The rifle was smoking hot but still ran without a problem. This is done on the move against a clock, from various positions, against various targets at different ranges. The highest score in the shortest time wins. There's a lot of dirt, dust and debris in the air thrown up by muzzle blast and bullet impacts, being blown back at the shooters by the prevailing wind.
                            The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                            The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I've never carried the Garand but those that I have carried in sand, dust, mud and grime, grease was a bad idea.

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