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Newbie buying a M1 for my son for re-enactment in Michigan

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    Newbie buying a M1 for my son for re-enactment in Michigan

    Found a M1 garand that is a SA 45 with a 3/44 barrel. Correct lock bar rear sight (not T105). Correct non high hump gas lock and a WWII issue SA GAW cartouche stock. Also has period correct trigger guard. Dealer says the barrel and gas system also gauge like new with about 90% of their life remaining. Its out of state. Working on trying to get some either return if its not as expected. He sent me some pics. Looks very nice. It originally was listed with a High hump gas lock and a T105 site, but he'll swap those out for me.
    Price is $1899. Not many dealers locally have them. 1 dealer as 2 Winchesters (1942 with Korean era barrels) and a SA 1945 with Korea barrel and all have new stocks. They are between 1200-1300.
    Any idea if that first garand is legit and really has that much life left and looks great, should I spend the extra money?
    Thanks
    Todd

    #2
    Welcome,
    You would have to post up a lot of detailed pics and the S/N, then the experts on here would be able to compare the two and see if it is "legit", meaning factory original or corrected. If the seller is already swapping out parts it is not original so it might be corrected, but they know so much more than I do I would like to see how they estimate the value and what the rifle came with parts wise from the factory. We have builders, historians, extreme collectors, specialist collectors on this board. They will need a lot of pics and detailed information though.
    m14brian

    Comment


      #3
      How particular are these re-enacters ? Do they care if the rifle has lock-bar sights or a WWII barrel ?

      CMP is selling service grade garands for $750. You can buy 2 garands for what you are now planning to spend for one.

      http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

      Comment


      • mtudb24
        mtudb24 commented
        Editing a comment
        They don't mind Korea era barrels, they just mostly care about appearance (ie correct sights, trigger housing, gas lock) and something that doesn't look fresh off the factory floor stock. However, for the gas lock it really doesn't matter because all the good quality BFA (blank fire adaptors) are period correct looking (ie non high hump). Its my understanding that the high hump was used to help with the grenade launcher

        .

      #4
      The price us insanely too high no matter what he does or doesn't do toward correcting it. Unless you can find a knowledgeable person to inspect and evaluate the rifle you are over ripe for getting plucked. And, unless you can get a guaranteed return and refund after buying it, buying it could only be considered, to be blunt, stupidity.

      Comment


      • mtudb24
        mtudb24 commented
        Editing a comment
        Appreciate the feedback. Yes, its very tough to buy anything sight unseen. I only have general pics and some recommendations from other people in the re-enactment group that this seller is legit in what he sells. However, they also agree his prices are a bit higher then most.
        Even the 3 that are local, I'll end up putting another couple hundred at least into correct triggers, lock bar sights, etc The more expensive one comes with period correct leather sling and all NOS cleaning M3 tool, rod, and oilers. He is supposed to get back with me on Monday about the warranty or return. They offer a 1 year warranty on all their "rebuilt" rifles they sell (they have various grades just like CMP)

      #5
      Originally posted by mtudb24 View Post
      Appreciate the feedback. Yes, its very tough to buy anything sight unseen. I only have general pics and some recommendations from other people in the re-enactment group that this seller is legit in what he sells. However, they also agree his prices are a bit higher then most.
      Even the 3 that are local, I'll end up putting another couple hundred at least into correct triggers, lock bar sights, etc The more expensive one comes with period correct leather sling and all NOS cleaning M3 tool, rod, and oilers. He is supposed to get back with me on Monday about the warranty or return. They offer a 1 year warranty on all their "rebuilt" rifles they sell (they have various grades just like CMP)
      Just remember you could buy a cheap CMP Field Grade, put on reproduction lock bars, put on a milled trigger guard and change a couple of cheap other parts and no one will ever be able to tell. For reenactment who cares. Spending $1800+ for a put together to look like correct Garand is complete foolishness when you might even, with more research, find an actual correct rifle for the same $$. Honestly, your LGS is taking you for a ride. And it's going to cost more than a "couple hundred" making it even more foolish making the purchase.

      As an example. Last year I sold an 80% correct November 1941 Garand for $1400 and felt I got everything it was worth. It even had an original barrel, had a type 2 lockbar and correct internals, op rod and trigger group.

      Comment


        #6
        Here's another think to think about. Would you want to roll around in the mud with a $1900 rifle or a $700 rifle ? Depending of the condition of the GAW stock on your $1900 rifle, you risk damaging or destroying a collectable stock. How close are you to Anniston, Alabama or Port Clinton, Ohio ? CMP has stores there and you could go to one of their store and look at the garands.

        Comment


          #7
          Originally posted by lapriester View Post

          Just remember you could buy a cheap CMP Field Grade, put on reproduction lock bars, put on a milled trigger guard and change a couple of cheap other parts and no one will ever be able to tell. For reenactment who cares. Spending $1800+ for a put together to look like correct Garand is complete foolishness when you might even, with more research, find an actual correct rifle for the same $$. Honestly, your LGS is taking you for a ride. And it's going to cost more than a "couple hundred" making it even more foolish making the purchase.

          As an example. Last year I sold an 80% correct November 1941 Garand for $1400 and felt I got everything it was worth. It even had an original barrel, had a type 2 lockbar and correct internals, op rod and trigger group.
          Can I buy a cheap field grade? The description show a Field grade may have multiple colored forearm and stock and may not include cutouts for the cleaning kit. That means if I get one of those, I am going to have to replace the stock with something original and provisions for a cleaning kit. So with that, I'd have to buy a stock, lock bars, gas port, milled trigger set etc. Yes, they are $650 but if I have to buy a stock and all the other stuff, what would that cost? I can't do it myself, so I'd have to pay somebody to do it.

          I don't really know what you mean by spending $1800 "for a put together" Garand is foolishness? It includes a SA receiver (WWI) and barrel (WWII) and a correct milled trigger guard and correct gas lock, and correct sights. Along with all NOS cleaning kits, oilers, etc.

          it would be nice lapriester, if you would explain your logic vs "belittling me" in that I'm a crazy fool and that I'm a dumbass for buying something. I am open for criticism, and have no problem taking it.

          Even if you look on this website under classified, there in not 1 M1 Garand under $1500 and most are $2000+. They obviously are going up and continue to go up.

          Yes, I believe that the ones at my local dealer are probably a better deal at $1200-$1300 and then install the pieces I need like milled trigger guard, correct sights, and correct gas lock. With the most expensive gun, its nice to have a WW2 stock with cartouge, WW2 barrel, WW2 receiver, correct sights, correct trigger guard, correct sling, and correct cleaning kit.

          Maybe what some of you don't understand is that re-enactment in battle is only some of the things they need to do. Once the battle is over, they also have to set up a WWII camp (correct cot, tent, mess kit, and all the other stuff and spend 2 nights over night). Then they give demonstrations of what the US Rifle, Caliber 30, M1 is.
          So besides going "pew pew" in the field at the enemy, we still need to provide an accurate rifle so veteran's and such can say thank you

          On a side note, it would be nice to take the BFA off (Blank firing Adaptor off) and be able to take this legend to the range and have at least a decent accurate firing rifle
          Todd

          Comment


            #8
            Todd,
            We're trying to be helpful here, believe it or not. For that $1800 are they going to include the KY Jelly?
            I've been at this game (M1 rifles--not reenacting) for 40 years and I don't profess to know it all. There's new information found almost daily. If you want to buy that rifle--who are we to tell you "no"? It's your money. It takes YEARS of study, not a night or two on the internet to learn all the intricasies of these rifles. Re:the trigger guard--by '44, maybe late '43 the stamped TG was in use. Is your son's impression early or late war? That GAW stock, if in decent shape is worth $400 give-or-take. Not a good one to play in the dirt with. Check evilpay. Stocks come up regularly for less than a c-note.You've been given good advice.Education is expen$ive.
            Jon
            Last edited by TJT; 03-18-2019, 09:01 AM.

            Comment


              #9
              How far are you from Port Clinton, Ohio ? It might be worth your time and effort to go to the CMP North Store and look at some rifles.
              If you plan to go, call them first, tell them your plans and what you are buying the rifle for and ask them about inventory.

              http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/cmp-stores/north-store/
              Last edited by jak; 03-18-2019, 08:39 AM.

              Comment


                #10
                Not trying to belittle you just stating the fact that you are paying way too much money for what you're considering buying. You said WWI receiver. Misprint right? There were no Garands in WWI. Hey, if it meets your needs and you are in a hurry to get it then buy it. As an investment it's a bad move but your move to make. Or take your time and buy something far more correct for the same money. For $1800 I'd gladly sell you a fully correct post war SA but, you are obviously looking for an earlier one.

                Since you are a self proclaimed newbie I strongly suggest finding someone who isn't. Buy the rifle, not the story and, to me, your seller is selling a story.
                Last edited by lapriester; 03-18-2019, 10:57 PM.

                Comment


                  #11
                  I've been a reenactor for earlier conflicts. The muskets took a beating. I maintained them, kept them in good shooting condition; but they really look "veteran" with dings and scratches (NO RUST!!). No way would I use a valuable collector grade rifle for this. Get a CMHP rack grade, and do the minimum to it (if anything) to make it acceptable. Mis-colored stock sets can be stained to a sort of uniform color.
                  The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                  The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Why would you need uniform wood? Pretty sure in WWII guys weren't worried about matching handguards. Too much matching stuff looks less authentic to me.

                    Comment


                      #13
                      Originally posted by Bruw View Post
                      Why would you need uniform wood? Pretty sure in WWII guys weren't worried about matching handguards. Too much matching stuff looks less authentic to me.
                      Exactly..........

                      Comment


                        #14
                        I have 4 M1 rifles. None of the wood matches exactly, and I like it that way., just like the parkerizing shouldn't match exactly on each and every part either. The rifles were assembled out of parts bins. The assembler grabbed what ever part was needed and assembled functioning rifles with no regard to revision numbers or color matches. The object was to get as many working rifles to the troops as quickly as possible.
                        Jon

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Everyone can like what they like and it's not wrong. I like unissued rifles with matching wood as close as possible that isn't full of dings, dents, and look like it got ran over by a tank 20 times. And I like new looking unworn parked metal. We're not in WW II or making guns for WW II.
                          Some people like the used patina look, the site owner is one, and I like the complete opposite, I like a rifle that looks like the day it was made. To each his own.
                          m14brian

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