Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Blown up WRA M1 Garand resulting death of 3 GI's SA Archives

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Blown up WRA M1 Garand resulting death of 3 GI's SA Archives






    U.S. RIFLE M1 .30 SN# 1616152
    Manufactured by Winchester, New Haven, Ct. - M1 rifle damaged in accident at Camp Drum, N.Y. Barrel spilt due to using a ball round instead of an M3 round to launch a rifle grenade. Barrel badly damaged. Bolt and internal parts missing. Stock separated from receiver. Three G.I.'s were killed in this accident. This is a WIN-13 rifle. It was manufactured sometime between January and June of 1945.

    Markings:
    Receiver: U.S. RIFLE/CAL..30 M1/WINCHESTER/TRADE MARK/1616152.
    Stock: 192 in white paint.
    Barrel: S-A-10-49.
    Operating rod: 6535382-SA.

    Weapon transferred to the Museum on 8 August 1963.

    The web site photo is a staged U.S. Army photo.

    Notes: "I don't know if it is recorded, but the story I heard concerning this weapon when I first got here (1977) was that it was being fired in the 1950s by a NY State Nat. Guard unit someplace in western NY State. They were firing grenades and instead of using the regulation blank round for that purpose they fired a grenade using a live round. According to the story I heard, a sgt. and two recruits were killed in the resulting explosion. I might note that in cleaning the weapon I found traces of earth, particularly in the butt plate, but no trace of blood or anything else of human origin. Watch out for sharp edges on the metal - any blood on this thing is mine - Type O Pos." - William E. Meuse, NPS Curator.

    "Improper Use of Ball Cartridge. Use of a ball cartridge instead of a special cartridge when launching a grenade is likely to explode the grenade, which will damage the weapon and cause serious injury to personnel." - TM9-2210

    #2
    Did the ball round cause the rifle grenade to explode?

    Comment


      #3
      That I do not know,that's all they have listed .

      Comment


        #4
        During WW1, the US military used the Viven-Bessieres grenade launcher which was also used by the French, This VB launcher was attached to the Model 1903 rifle and the grenade was inserted into the launcher, This VB grenade had a hole in the center and a standard ball cartridge was used to launch the VB grenade. These were not used a lot after WW1 and were still in the system in the 1930's

        Comment


          #5
          A very interesting article for sure.
          Also an interesting Serial Number issue is at hand. Scott Duff sold M1 Garands from "Mac" McCollum's collection. In that collection, coincidently, there was a matched pair of SA/WRA rifles with the same serial number (1616152) as the number listed in the above article. In his letter announcing the sale he actually shows a photo of the heels of both of those rifles, so definitely not a mistake, or typo, in that number.

          While the rifle, overall, looks to be in pretty bad shape, I do not see any obvious damage to the receiver.

          I am left wondering if the museum still has it or if that receiver made it's way into Mac's hands at some point???
          Or, is this a simple mistake, or typo??

          Like I said, an interesting article, for sure

          Rob

          I attached a copy of the Scott Duff letter (or at least I hope I did)
          Attached Files
          Last edited by rob30-06; 10-29-2018, 09:16 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Rob30-06
            Extremely interesting. Thank You for posting.
            Last edited by RDS; 10-29-2018, 01:55 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              This is most interesting according to archives it is still at Springfield Armory SPAR #5604

              Comment


                #8
                Duplicate number? Two Winchester and (1) Springfield Armory. Anything is possible during War time production.

                Comment


                  #9
                  They dont show the current picture only anouther pic of the damaged rifle from a different angle ,says transfered to museum 1963 .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Quite a mystery and one that has me in a pickle. As some of you may know I help Dave McClain on another forum by managing a spreadsheet of SA/WRA Serial numbers from the duplicate serial ranges. Not sure at this point if the WRA serial gets two records entered or not. That certainly is unusual I would think, even if it is possible. Adding further to the oddity of this is the recorded nature of this Winchester serial number. One rifle in the Springfield Museum and the other recorded in the collection of a very well-known member of our collecting world. Long odds on that for sure out of the millions of rifles out there.

                    If there is no objection from this group, I would like to open this subject on the CMP Forum.

                    Rob

                    update:
                    I sent an email to SPAR Interpretation to see if they will confirm the serial number of the rifle in their collection, though it would be hard to believe it would be incorrect.
                    Not expecting a quick reply.

                    I think before I come to any conclusion I will wait for information from both sides of the story
                    Last edited by rob30-06; 10-31-2018, 04:54 AM.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X