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Mis-shaped brass

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  • Orlando
    replied
    Just because the mouth isn't dented doesn't mean it isn't hit by the op rod. I am sure bolt speed etc has a lot to do with it
    I will have to find the article, its in a old Garand Stand publication

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  • Smokey
    replied
    Might also be the bolt moving back forward again before the case is clear. All I know is empties are thrown forward at about 1:00 o'clock except for the last round, which comes out sideways. Most of the Garands I've worked with beat up the case necks and the rims. I also see brass smudges on the op rod.

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  • TJT
    replied
    Bill,
    If that were true, each and every piece of brass would be hit by the op rod. The op rod would also have square corners on it, not radiused corners. It's quite obvious in all the slo-mo clips I've seen that yes, every once-in-a-while one hits the op rod "just right", but mostly, upon contact, it just sends the brass spinning wildly.
    Jon
    Last edited by TJT; 09-24-2018, 02:19 PM.

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  • Orlando
    replied
    Jon, its not a myth. Somewhere I have a article written by Art Tuttle who was John Garands right hand man and its talks about the op rod being designed to hit the brass the and defelct it away

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  • TJT
    replied
    When is the op rod myth gonna' die? It's bolt speed and ejector/extractor spring strength that determines where the brass lands.
    Jon

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  • Smokey
    replied
    A properly greased Garand with most types of military ball is expected to toss the empties forward at about 1:00 o'clock. This makes sense since the brass is very hot and thrown with some force. You don't want to be bothering fellow soldiers on your right. To get it moving forward instead of sideways (at 3:00 o'clock) something has to hit them. The op rod makes sense. The last round usually gets tossed to 3 or 4 o'clock since the op rod is stopped in the open condition.

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  • lapriester
    replied
    I've had 12 different Garands and, if I remember right (which is hard with CRS) 6 or more have dented necks, cut rims and bent rims. The ammo and related bolt speed has a lot to do with it. Almost all of them dented, cut and bent HXP. Not so many with mid range reloads or heavier bullets. Slower bolt speed seems to minimize neck denting. It's hard to do anything about rim damage caused by the extractor snapping over the rim as the round is slammed to battery. Any brass I cull after several loadings are usually because of rim damage. Neck dents don't affect the brass longevity.

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  • TJT
    replied
    Funny thing--I have 4 M1 rifles. NONE of them dent the case mouths. That ONLY happens if they land on the concrete or rock-hard ground. I'm just sayin'.....
    And I've shot thousands of rounds thru them over the past 40 gears.
    Jon

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  • lapriester
    replied
    Originally posted by TJT View Post
    The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod. If your brass lands in grass or soft soil those case mouth dents will not be present.
    Also, don't fall for the myth that the hump in the op rod was designed to kick the brass forward either.
    Jon
    Wrong. Sure, cement can cause it, dirt won't. The op rod does cause damage as well as the brass spinning and hitting the receiver as it's ejected. Watch and learn: https://youtu.be/reXbqHMZ-SM

    It's very obvious in this one: https://youtu.be/1vKFgj7WhNo
    Last edited by lapriester; 09-16-2018, 10:11 PM.

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  • lapriester
    replied
    Originally posted by Orlando View Post
    completely normal, the garand is hard on brass.
    This. The brass spins as it's ejected and one of three things happens. The op rod hits the brass, the brass hits the op rod or the brass spins and hits the receiver. Bolt speed, extractor spring strength and ejector spring strength are all factors. In the case of different types of ammo, each will produce a different bolt/op rod speed that determines the level of brass damage. Just use a tapered punch the right size to round out the necks before sizing or your expander may get hung up on the downstroke and ruin the neck. Remember, in war, no one cares what the brass looks like after it's ejected. The Garand was designed to function reliably not conserve brass. You will probably find slight to moderate rim cuts, and bends if you look close enough. Also quite normal. Some can be bad enough the case may not fit in your shell holder. Clean those up with a small file and load em' up. Welcome to the M1 crowd.

    Watch this and you can see why: https://youtu.be/reXbqHMZ-SM

    It's even clearer in this one: https://youtu.be/1vKFgj7WhNo
    Last edited by lapriester; 09-16-2018, 10:12 PM.

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  • jak
    replied
    Originally posted by TJT View Post
    The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod.
    Jon
    Then why does my op rod have brass marks on it ? Also, why do some pieces of my brass that land in the grass have a dent ? Please explain.
    Last edited by jak; 09-16-2018, 09:09 PM.

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  • TJT
    replied
    The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod. If your brass lands in grass or soft soil those case mouth dents will not be present.
    Also, don't fall for the myth that the hump in the op rod was designed to kick the brass forward either.
    Jon
    Last edited by TJT; 09-16-2018, 08:29 PM.

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  • gravitysuksv15
    replied
    Thanks for the info.

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  • jak
    replied
    The brass is hitting the op rod. You may even see the brass marks on the op rod. As Orlando said, all the dents and nicks are normal.
    Last edited by jak; 09-15-2018, 07:19 PM.

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  • Orlando
    replied
    completely normal, the garand is hard on brass.

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