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    Mis-shaped brass

    I took the Garand out today for the first time. 1953 Garand, Field Grade from the CMP. Broke it down when I got it and did a through cleaning, oiled where appropriate, light coat of grease on the op rod and the receiver slot for the op rod. Also light coat of grease on the lugs as well as the inside of the receiver where the bolt rides.

    Testing a couple of different factory loads to see what this rifle prefers:
    Federal American Eagle for Garands, 150 gr FMJ
    PPU Rifle Line for Garand, 150 gr FMJ
    1967 Lake City Army Ammo Plant Match , 173 gr FMJ
    Sellier & Bellot for Garand, 150 gr FMJ
    Hornaday Match for Garand, 168 gr FMJ

    I ran 5 round groups and find that there is some ammo that is better than others, but the real take away is that I need a better shooting rest than my half empty range bag. Anyway, My question is about the ejected brass. All of the casings had flattened case openings, the Hornaday brass was the least affected but was still a little out of whack. All of the primers look good, so I don't think there is an over pressure issue. On some of the rounds the rim has a small burr from the extractor. Is this normal? If not, what are the likely culprits?

    Thank you for any insights.

    #2
    completely normal, the garand is hard on brass.

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      #3
      The brass is hitting the op rod. You may even see the brass marks on the op rod. As Orlando said, all the dents and nicks are normal.
      Last edited by jak; 09-15-2018, 08:19 PM.

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        #4
        Thanks for the info.

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          #5
          The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod. If your brass lands in grass or soft soil those case mouth dents will not be present.
          Also, don't fall for the myth that the hump in the op rod was designed to kick the brass forward either.
          Jon
          Last edited by TJT; 09-16-2018, 09:29 PM.

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            #6
            Originally posted by TJT View Post
            The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod.
            Jon
            Then why does my op rod have brass marks on it ? Also, why do some pieces of my brass that land in the grass have a dent ? Please explain.
            Last edited by jak; 09-16-2018, 10:09 PM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Orlando View Post
              completely normal, the garand is hard on brass.
              This. The brass spins as it's ejected and one of three things happens. The op rod hits the brass, the brass hits the op rod or the brass spins and hits the receiver. Bolt speed, extractor spring strength and ejector spring strength are all factors. In the case of different types of ammo, each will produce a different bolt/op rod speed that determines the level of brass damage. Just use a tapered punch the right size to round out the necks before sizing or your expander may get hung up on the downstroke and ruin the neck. Remember, in war, no one cares what the brass looks like after it's ejected. The Garand was designed to function reliably not conserve brass. You will probably find slight to moderate rim cuts, and bends if you look close enough. Also quite normal. Some can be bad enough the case may not fit in your shell holder. Clean those up with a small file and load em' up. Welcome to the M1 crowd.

              Watch this and you can see why: https://youtu.be/reXbqHMZ-SM

              It's even clearer in this one: https://youtu.be/1vKFgj7WhNo
              Last edited by lapriester; 09-16-2018, 11:12 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TJT View Post
                The flat spot on the case mouth is caused when the case hits the concrete shooting deck or rock-hard ground, not from hitting the op rod. If your brass lands in grass or soft soil those case mouth dents will not be present.
                Also, don't fall for the myth that the hump in the op rod was designed to kick the brass forward either.
                Jon
                Wrong. Sure, cement can cause it, dirt won't. The op rod does cause damage as well as the brass spinning and hitting the receiver as it's ejected. Watch and learn: https://youtu.be/reXbqHMZ-SM

                It's very obvious in this one: https://youtu.be/1vKFgj7WhNo
                Last edited by lapriester; 09-16-2018, 11:11 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Funny thing--I have 4 M1 rifles. NONE of them dent the case mouths. That ONLY happens if they land on the concrete or rock-hard ground. I'm just sayin'.....
                  And I've shot thousands of rounds thru them over the past 40 gears.
                  Jon

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I've had 12 different Garands and, if I remember right (which is hard with CRS) 6 or more have dented necks, cut rims and bent rims. The ammo and related bolt speed has a lot to do with it. Almost all of them dented, cut and bent HXP. Not so many with mid range reloads or heavier bullets. Slower bolt speed seems to minimize neck denting. It's hard to do anything about rim damage caused by the extractor snapping over the rim as the round is slammed to battery. Any brass I cull after several loadings are usually because of rim damage. Neck dents don't affect the brass longevity.

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                      #11
                      A properly greased Garand with most types of military ball is expected to toss the empties forward at about 1:00 o'clock. This makes sense since the brass is very hot and thrown with some force. You don't want to be bothering fellow soldiers on your right. To get it moving forward instead of sideways (at 3:00 o'clock) something has to hit them. The op rod makes sense. The last round usually gets tossed to 3 or 4 o'clock since the op rod is stopped in the open condition.
                      The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                      The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        When is the op rod myth gonna' die? It's bolt speed and ejector/extractor spring strength that determines where the brass lands.
                        Jon

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                          #13
                          Jon, its not a myth. Somewhere I have a article written by Art Tuttle who was John Garands right hand man and its talks about the op rod being designed to hit the brass the and defelct it away

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bill,
                            If that were true, each and every piece of brass would be hit by the op rod. The op rod would also have square corners on it, not radiused corners. It's quite obvious in all the slo-mo clips I've seen that yes, every once-in-a-while one hits the op rod "just right", but mostly, upon contact, it just sends the brass spinning wildly.
                            Jon
                            Last edited by TJT; 09-24-2018, 03:19 PM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Might also be the bolt moving back forward again before the case is clear. All I know is empties are thrown forward at about 1:00 o'clock except for the last round, which comes out sideways. Most of the Garands I've worked with beat up the case necks and the rims. I also see brass smudges on the op rod.
                              The thief may possess something he stole, but he does not own it.
                              The owner has a right to take his property back from the thief.

                              Comment

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