CMP Auction: extra wide rib receiver

[RCS]

The cmp auction has another extra wide rib receiver. Not many of these are around and most have the low guide ribs welded-up for the seventh round correction. The cmp auction receiver is serial number 42427. Data on these extra wide rib receivers appears to start at 36733, there are about 10 or 12 known to date.

Photos show an original receiver still with the low guide rbs

[Jersey Devil]

Yours is nicer. If I were in the market for such a receiver then I'd want one without the correction, like yours. I can only manage one restoration at a time, yet I've managed to take on several more than that lately.......

[Gastrapsforme]

Come on, it's a late gas trap. It's almost easy. As far as restoring gas traps go. And like Robert said it's a seldom seen example. Would fit in well with all the neat stuff you turn up.

Robert, so they start in the 37k range do we see them to the end of gas trap production? Or was it a much shorter production run? From what I understand this was a way to try and resolve the 7th round malfunction, right? Have any wide ribs been seen with uncut ribs? Or are they all built up after rebuild, besides the un modified. But it's a very interesting subject.

[RCS]

Kevin, Most of the extra wide rib receivers have had the guide ribs weld-up during rebuild. The highest serial number that I have found is 45631 and it has the 7th round correction. I would consider these receivers with the extra wide rib as kind of rare, more so if they still have the low rib. These have been around for over ten years now, but still little interest

Photo shows a 41K gas trap and 42K gas trap with the extra wide rib

[Bubba1]

45631 has the extra small rib

[Bubba1]

I believe there is at least one more coming up for auction. They had four of them, as best as my memory serves me.

[RCS]

Paul, do you have a inside photo of 45631 ? I have it listed as having an extra wide rib but without the 7th round correction (had it posted wrong with the 7th round correction, You had 42681 ?

[Bubba1]

45631 ribs

[Bubba1]

I have 42561

[Bubba1]

I don't have any pictures or information on 42681 . If I posted this serial number, I must have hit the wrong number .

[RCS]

Paul, Thanks for posting the photos of the receiver ribs, I have eleven serial numbers (I think) of the extra wide rib receivers and out of those eleven receivers, seven have had the extra wide rib weld-up during rebuild

[Bubba1]

40664 is wide rib unmodified . I can't get the picture to upload . I believe that has a lot to do with me .

What serial numbers do you have ?

[RCS]

We have a small group of collectors that exchanged information about the extra wide rib receivers, that all that was talked about and the serial numbers. Some of these guys wanted their serial numbers kept confidential. Some of these guys are also are on this forum. I can tell you half the serial numbers were in the late 30K range and all receivers were REP 5, 6, 7 and 8 among the entire range. After a few years passed, nothing new surfaced and some of these guys sold their extra wide rib receivers/rifles to other collectors while some bought other extra wide rib receivers or rifles.

Some like Johnny Peppers, have posted their extra wide rib receiver (36733 with 7th round correction) on jouster and it is well known - while others just do not want to disclose any information about their receivers

[Bubba1]

That does make it very difficult to collect and analyze data . I can understand why people do not want others to know what serial numbers they have , but , collecting and analyzing data doesn't have to tie to ownership . The less data that is shared or collected , the harder it is to figure out anything about it. A good case in point is early Winchester rifles including the Educational Order . Apparently all of the information on very early Winchester rifles are based on 100,001 , which we do not know when it was assembled as it does not have a extra hole hammer in it or at least it didn't have one when it was found and supposedly Educational Order rifles should have this , along with other, features in it, and data from a 2k rifle , and I believe, the GCA has turned up a 4K and/or 5K rifle . Bruce Canfield wrote a good article on Educational Order serial numbers which showed how the EO rifles could be any serial number up to the first 1200 or so . That is great information and is based on facts of production not serial number blocks . I still like to keep the EO rifles in the first 500 for collecting purposes, but it is good to keep this other information alive until information containing the exact serial numbers surface , if it ever does . The Pugsley files have shown great information about Winchester production also . I get it that some people do not want to share anything and some are afraid others will find out what they have . Have you ever wondered why no other new information or very little has come to light over the wide rib receivers ? Why not post up information , that people are willing to post , and ask for others to contribute . Ownership does not have to be posted nor is it needed . Not everybody wants to post but some , even if it is one , may share information when they see others will share theirs and data can be furthered and analyzed . As you posted above there is a small group of collectors that exchanged information on these receivers but not all were or are willing to share their information . It makes it difficult to ask someone to share their information if those wanting it are not willing to share theirs . I only used the example of this post on wide rib receivers to ask each of us to share information to help with data collection and help piece more missing information together . Ownership of the pieces or rifles does not have to be a factor so privacy can be kept . There are many other areas where data is scarce , modelshops , early production from Springfield and Winchester as to part useage , etc, etc, etc, .... I love Gas Trap rifles ,early prewar Gas Ports both Springfield and Winchester and my knew found fondness of first production parts and rifles . The most fun I've had is sharing knowledge learned about them and correcting my knowledge of what I thought was right . If we are not willing to share our knowledge and learn from new found discoveries then it won't be long before the knowledge base is lost or people stop caring about it .

[RCS]

Paul, you are correct in the above statement and certain information is just not going to be shared. Concerning s/n 100001, there were also photos in a period Chicago newspaper of this rifle showing the disassembled parts but difficult to study. Keep in mind there was more than one Winchester Model 1917 rifle with the serial number 1. When Winchester serial number 1 surfaced, I did receive a data sheet and the hammer was without the hole, later the owners son decided to install a WRA hammer with the hole, still later it was changed back. Some have stated to me that the Winchester hammer with the extra hole was a replacement part, others have said they were un-marked Springfield hammers and marked by Winchester.

There is little information on the length of time the keystone & comp springs were used and some speculation as to Springfield follower rods being used (they are used in restorations)

Concerning Model Shop receivers, serial number 19 (LMR Barrel) was last seen in Wisconsin, serial number 23 was last seen in Long Island (cut down one side) and a fellow collector who I have known for many years who lives near Rock Island, found serial number 25 at a local range and was able to buy it, it had been made into a NM rifle. Most difficult to find of all model shop rifles is the replacement receiver without the serial number

[Bubba1]

Thanks Robert, you are right but it still makes it difficult . We must ever be on the lookout for information / data to retain and analyze for future knowledge

[Gastrapsforme]

Bubba, from what I know there are atleast 2 of the no serial number model shop receivers. Does that seem right from what you have found? I'm interested in knowing how many are built up today. 3 and 5 are mostly model shop I've learned. And I believe you said 64 is mostly gas trap. But I wonder if most the others are gas trap builds, and how many have any model shop parts in them still. The info I have only lists a few discriptions of them. Most info is just the serial number and maybe the collection it was in at the time. Number 1 is a mix of gas trap and model shop, does anyone know what's on number 2. I know it's been refinished.