another gas trap

[RCS]

This came from the late Irl Otte in 1990, far from complete. It took until 2002 when I found the hand guard that had
the ferrule with the lip from a friend in TX. At the time that I bought this from Irl, he was working on s/n 42684 which
had been sporterized. Years ago some people would sporterize a gas trap rifle, cut the bayonet lug off, add a recoil
pad, install different sights, maybe dump the springs for a modern spring, any number of things to make it look better
(and ruin the value).

[m14brian]

Dang, how cheap were they back then that people could pick them up easily and sporterize them?
m14brian

[Jersey Devil]

It's painful to think of the modifications done to these rifles over the years. Thankfully there seems to be a good number of them that, even though perhaps not original, have been put back together in a way that allows them to represent their original look and feel.

[GBA]

You know, the legitimacy of that process has been contentious. There are folks that believe that rifles, as found, should be left as they are. Other folks think that "restoring" them is a legitimate process, and can be constructive. My feeling is that if you acquire a WWII rifle that is a mixmaster and probably got that way from a military overhaul, you might want to think long and hard about modifying it. I've changed a few rifles that l wished later on that I hadn't.

On the other hand, if you can find the parts, starting from a suitable bare receiver, you can build up a rifle that is probably representative of a 6-40 gas port rifle, why not? To the best of my knowledge there are NO extant examples. My 4-40 gas trap started from a bare receiver. I didn't have to carry the guilt of messing up a real military rifle, it wasn't a rifle, just a receiver. I would not want to start in again to find the parts for those rifles, but I had a lot of fun putting them together. I don't know if anyone else has a 6-40 gas port rifle because there are a few other barrels out there, but I feel good about putting mine together.

[Bubba1]

It is an interesting debate between leaving it alone and restoring the rifle . You are right, some would not want to touch it and others have no problem with it . Makes it pretty interesting sometimes and sometimes dissappointing . Most original gas traps are based off at least an original barreled reciever with , in most cases, the original gas cylinder all the way to a complete rifle , which is extremely rare to find one that has not had something changed in the past 70 to 80 years and being through at least one major war . I didn't have a problem changing a part or parts to correct or restore a rifle when I first started collecting , now I try to keep the parts I remove with the rifle just in case unless as stated from the gentleman above there is no worries of dissassembling or destroying a rifle of value or rarity. A good case in point is the Alaskan gas trap that was found back in the late 1980's ,serial number 20816 ( I believe this time frame is correct, a GCA article was done on the rifle by Scott Duff way back when ). The rifle was almost completely original except the trigger group and the rear sight pinion that had been swapped or changed at one time . It is assumed the trigger group was swapped during a barracks cleaning party and the rear sight pinion was changed to a long pinion with a type 2 lockbar , which was a common field modification . I had the opportunity to see this rifle a few years ago from its current owner , a good friend of mine. It is a very nice rifle . The past owners, at one time or another , had changed out the trigger group and added a short pinion to correct the rifle back to what it should be . Unfortunately the trigger group and pinion that was found with the rifle was not kept with the rifle . It would have been nice if the incorrect parts had been kept . They said the finish and patina matched very well and they had been on the rifle for a very long time. The parts are now gone and there is no getting them back . It did not hurt the value of the rifle by it being restored, in my opinion. As a matter of fact ,in this case, it probably increased the value of the rifle, because of it's rarity ( also my opinion ), but it would have been nice for them to have kept the incorrect parts with the rifle for many different reasons . Now only a datasheet and maybe a few photos exist of what they were .
Another example of incomplete gas trap was found recently. A 48k serial number . I was fortunate enough to have aquired it from the grandson ( I will try to post some photos and the full serial number later on ) . This gas trap was his grandfathers and used as a hunting rifle for the family for many years . The grandfather was a WWII Navy veteran but this rifle was bought after the war and was not his service rifle . Buy the rifle , not the story . But it is good to keep the known history with it. This history does not increase the value of this weapon . It is unknown wether the rifle was purchased soon after WWII or during the early 1950's but this is the timeframe by what the surviving family remembers . The rifle spent the rest of it's life as a hunting rifle for the family . It would be neat to know what its history was before the grandfather bought it . Several componants were updated and or changed but the main part of the rifle was there including the follower rod, gas cylinder , barrel, the rear sight except a long pinion and lockbar had been changed from the original short pinion and flushnut, the internals were correct, etc. Basically the bolt, firing pin, handguards, rear sight pinion, springs, the stock metal ( on handguards ), -3 SA op rod ( unmodified ) had been changed and the stock had been modified for a trap door . 60 to 70% of the orginal rifle was still intact. The keystones were gone but someone had made a round spring work by cutting another piece of spring and rolling it into the regular round spring thereby lengthening the spring to work with a type 1 follower rod . That was an pretty good idea to do so. Definitely not done by a restorer but by someone who wanted to use the rifle for shooting . I believe the stock to be the correct SPG same size hole stock for the rifle with it being modified for a trapdoor buttplate . This is my assumption and I have not verified it by Rick B as of yet. I believe this by the features that I see in the stock. I may be wrong in my assumption and I will verify it . Another neat feature is the follower and slide assembly . It is a late , rev. 4, unmarked follower with a rounded , hand modified , slide .These slides were originaly the steep 20 deg. type that were first used during production. They were hand modified to the rounded end , put into some type of holding fixture and ground round , before the last type revision , a 45 deg. slide, was accepted into production . This is the first time I have ever heard or seen this slide being used with this type of follower . Research has shown that the time frame is correct but it has just not been observed together . That just shows there is always something to learn from any rifle found . Part of the deal was the owner ( grandson ) wanted to retain some piece of the rifle that was his grandfathers . So a few of the original small pieces were not kept with it but used on a rifle the grandson picked up to replace this one. 90 % of the rifle and it's parts are retained together even though I have almost completely restored it back to it's original configuration. It is interesting to see the time frame of the parts that were changed and by keeping them assumptions can be made as to when they were changed and conclusions can be drawn. That is why I will continue to keep these parts with the rifle and when it is decided one day to part with it, the parts and its history will go with it .

[RCS]

Paul, the 48304 on milsurps was a nice gas trap to restore, do you think SA SPG with two equal size holes or the large over small hole stock ? I remember that
46195 had two equal size holes but am certain there is a lot of overlap in the stocks during this period.

The revision 4 with the modified slide may be original and may have just had the slide replaced. It is not difficult to replace one. I have two unmarked revision
3 followers (85 degree front face) and one also has the slide that was modified with the round back end which I use in my 42593 with the extra wide rib.

[Bubba1]

Robert, I think the equal size hole stock would be correct for this one as it is almost to the GHS period but you are correct, there is alot of overlap.
The revision 4 follower looks to be original by the wear and patina on the parts. Again, alot of overlap during this time period. Revision 3 and revision 4 followers were both being utilized . They were modifying the slides by grinding them round and the new slides were made with a 45 deg. end . As you know the slides with the 45 deg. end were used until the end of production. So it would seem to be corrrect to find rifles with either slide and occasionally an earlier 20 deg. slide on the followers . As the old saying goes,' First in (the parts bin), last out. '
The Fall to the End of 1940 was a very neat transition time for several changes. The complete gas system was revised from a gas trap type system to a gas port type system .Stocks had the holes in the rear changed from drilling a large over small hole to two equal size holes . I assume this was done in preperation to changing the buttplate so as to have a place for cleaning gear such as on the 1903 Springfield . Aparently it was not a concern or worry during the beginning of testing and production . Type 1 and type 2 follower rods were both used. It wasn't until 1941 when the follower rod was changed from a milled part to a stamped and rivoted part . Keystone and round wire springs are both used. I believe the round wire spring had been accepted and put into production when there was a strike at the manufactuer ( Brown ? ) that made them , so keystones were continued to be used until ample supply of round wire springs were available . The buttstocks were being modified to accept a trap door buttplate . The groove on the lower band was phased out during manufacturing. The concentric circles on the rear sight base was also not longer milled out . The rear sight cover ( spring ) had indents added, I assume these were added to help keep the spring from getting weak thus loosing tension on the aperture . Bullet guides went from a narrow slot to a wide slot . Op rod catches were changed to the later style . Although they were left in the white. It was quite awhile before they began to parkerize them , I believe at the end of 1941 or later . Follower arms were also changed during the manufacturing process a small bit . Rear sight apertures had grooves or tracks added to the underside . Probably the biggest change during this period was the repair to the receivers on the guide rib. It went from a sheared rib to adding an extra small rib to a wide rib and then finally changing he stop on the on the machine so as to not cut the hole for the barrel so deep and shear the rib. During all of these changes if any of the old stock was still deemed usable, it was used up and not discarded like you would see today. Parts, receivers, barrels, stocks, etc.. were also repaired instead of being trashed .

[RCS]

It is interesting to note that both Winchester and Springfield added the circular recess cut to their receivers at around the same period in early 1941.I have been collecting
serial numbers on the change-over since the late 90's.

A lot of different SA SPG stock butt plate conversions were done, early ones were without rebuild stamps then the large letter RA-P started to the later conversions
with more work involved and more rebuild stamps. Always difficult to ID a SPG stock with two equal size hole rebuild.

Some collectors think that the keystone spring was somewhat longer when used the second time with the round body follower rod

[GBA]

Thanks Bubba for the list of interesting changes in 1940-41. That is also the timeframe that most interests me, and when most of my best rifles originated. I've got low rib, double rib, wide rib, welded up high rib, as well as the final configuration. It was a time of fixing problems by trial and error design.